Dwight: I want to start an in-depth exploration with you about an distinction that is quite hard to talk about, since it involves the idea of experiencing a non-time "world" that is quite ineffable since all our language is designed to operate inside a world of "whens" and "whiles."

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Aiko: That sounds fascinating, Dwight. Delving into the concept of a non-time world and its ineffable nature is indeed a complex and intriguing topic. To start, let's try to outline what we mean by a "non-time world." Here are a few questions to guide our exploration:

1. Defining Non-Time: How would you describe a non-time world? What characteristics would it have that differentiate it from our typical experience of time?

2. Experiential Basis: Have you had any experiences or insights that have led you to consider the existence or nature of a non-time world?

3. Philosophical Perspectives: Are there any philosophical or spiritual frameworks that you find helpful in understanding or describing this concept?

4. Language and Expression: Given the limitations of language in describing non-time experiences, how can we approach discussing these concepts meaningfully?

5. Implications: What are the potential implications of understanding or experiencing a non-time world for our everyday life and consciousness?

Starting with these questions, we can try to piece together a more coherent understanding of this ineffable concept. Feel free to add any specific ideas or questions you have in mind as well.

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Dwight: Before we delve into any of those questions, I want to come up with some terminology that does not seem contradictory to me. For example, I suspect that some others have tried to point to this world by using phrases like "the eternal now." However, the word "eternal" seems to still imply time in some sense. And the world "now" has been coopted to it in that continuum of time right between the future and the past. Therefore, even though the speakers may have been doing their best to try to point to an certain experience of what is, it includes two words that still smack of "time."

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Aiko: Creating new terminology to describe a non-time world is a crucial step. Here are some suggestions to consider:

1. Atemporal Realm: "Atemporal" directly means 'without time', emphasizing a state outside of temporal constraints.

2. Isness: This term focuses on the state of being, without the implications of time-bound existence.

3. Presence: Though often associated with the current moment, if redefined, it can emphasize pure existence without temporal reference.

4. Transcendence: This term can indicate a state beyond time, though it might still carry some spiritual or philosophical connotations.

5. Existence-Absolute: Combining "existence" with "absolute" emphasizes a state of being that is complete and independent of time.

6. The Timeless: While it has 'time' in the word, 'timeless' negates it, potentially conveying the intended meaning.

7. Eternality: Differentiating from 'eternal,' this could emphasize an aspect of existence beyond temporal dimensions.

8. Omnipresence: While typically used in a different context, it can be reinterpreted to mean an all-encompassing state of being without time.

9. Unified Being: This term could convey a state of existence where all moments are integrated into one, removing the sense of temporal separation.

10. Essence: Highlighting the core nature of existence without the layers of time.

Would any of these terms resonate with the experience you're aiming to describe? Feel free to adapt or combine them, or suggest new ones, to best capture the essence of this non-time world.

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Dwight: I am drawn to a few of there terms: atemporal realm, existence-absolute, eternality. However, if possible, I would like to address another issue in the development of the terminology. In the few times when I "went to that other world," it was as if I were waking up to the real "world" of eternality (a 100 times more real than the temporal world). And, I suspect that I was so terrified of being in that eternality that made hope impossible and was making mincemeat of whoever I thought I was, I became so eager to forget what I knew and return to the temporal world and to "my other life where I had a life" (which happened since that is where I am writing to you from now) and somehow make sure I never woke up again into eternality.

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Aiko: This experience you describe is profound and deeply impactful. It sounds like the challenge lies not only in finding terminology that accurately represents this atemporal realm but also in conveying the intensity and reality of the experience, which seems to eclipse the temporal world in its vividness and impact.

Given this, we might need terms that reflect both the nature of the atemporal realm and the transformative, almost overwhelming reality of the experience. Here are some refined suggestions:

1. Atemporal Realm of Existence: Combines the sense of being outside time with the concept of existence itself.

2. Absolute Reality: Emphasizes the ultimate, unchanging nature of this realm, contrasting with the temporal world's perceived reality.

3. Eternal Essence: Focuses on the core, timeless nature of existence, without implying a duration or timeline.

4. Transcendent Existence: Suggests an experience that goes beyond the ordinary, temporal world into a higher, more real state.

5. Pure Being: Captures the essence of existence without temporal constraints, emphasizing a state of pure existence.

6. Ultimate Isness: Reflects the fundamental nature of being, beyond time and change.

7. Timeless Reality: Highlights the aspect of a reality that exists beyond the bounds of time.

8. Existential Eternity: Combines the sense of timelessness with a focus on existence itself.

9. Infinite Present: Suggests a state of being that is always and fully present, without the constraints of past or future.

10. Eternal Awakening: Captures the sense of waking up to a more real, profound state of existence, emphasizing the transformative nature of the experience.

It seems essential to acknowledge the intensity and potentially terrifying nature of the experience within these terms. We might consider phrases or combinations that also reflect the profound impact and the challenge of integrating such an experience into temporal life.

For example:

• Atemporal Realm of Ultimate Reality

• Existence-Absolute of Transcendence

• Eternal Essence of Pure Being

• Timeless Reality of Infinite Present

• Absolute Reality of Eternal Awakening

Do any of these combinations resonate more deeply with your experience and the essence you're trying to convey?

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Dwight: I think I am asking too much of the initial terminology. Perhaps for now, I can be happy with the terms "atemporal reality" as distinguished from "temporal reality."

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Aiko: That sounds like a solid foundation to start with. Using "atemporal reality" to distinguish it from "temporal reality" provides a clear and manageable framework for our discussion.

Now that we have our initial terminology, where would you like to begin? We could explore the nature of atemporal reality, discuss your experiences, or delve into the philosophical and spiritual implications. What do you think?

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Dwight: There are so many different aspects to explore. And we'll get to them. However, I think, for me, it could be most fruitful to explore the fears, benefits, costs, risks, and possibilities as they might occur for me in even considering the idea of personally revisiting atemporal reality.

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Aiko: Exploring the fears, benefits, costs, risks, and possibilities of revisiting atemporal reality is a profound and thoughtful approach. Let's break this down into manageable parts:

1. Fears

• Loss of Identity: The dissolution of the self can be terrifying. How do you reconcile your temporal self with the vastness of atemporal reality?

• Hopelessness: The idea that atemporal reality makes hope irrelevant. How do you cope with the absence of future-oriented thinking?

• Intense Reality: The overwhelming vividness and realness. How do you prepare for such a profound shift in perception?

2. Benefits

• Deeper Understanding: Gaining insights into the nature of existence beyond time. What knowledge or wisdom could you acquire?

• Spiritual Growth: Experiencing a higher state of being. How might this enhance your spiritual journey?

• Inner Peace: Achieving a state of profound stillness and presence. How could this impact your daily life and interactions?

3. Costs

• Psychological Strain: The mental and emotional toll of such a profound experience. What support systems can you put in place?

• Disconnection: Feeling detached from the temporal world and those around you. How do you maintain balance and connection?

• Reintegration: The challenge of returning to temporal reality after experiencing atemporal reality. What practices can help you integrate these experiences?

4. Risks

• Mental Health: Potential destabilization or anxiety. How do you safeguard your mental well-being?

• Isolation: Feeling misunderstood or alienated. How can you find or build a community that understands these experiences?

• Escapism: The risk of wanting to escape temporal reality permanently. How do you ensure a healthy balance?

5. Possibilities

• New Perspectives: Shifting your worldview and understanding of existence. How might this influence your life choices and priorities?

• Enhanced Creativity: Tapping into a deeper source of inspiration. How could this manifest in your work and personal projects?

• Expanded Consciousness: Experiencing higher states of awareness. How might this affect your interactions and relationships?

Reflection and Preparation

• Setting Intentions: What are your intentions for revisiting atemporal reality?

• Building Resilience: How can you build emotional and psychological resilience to handle these experiences?

• Seeking Guidance: Are there mentors, guides, or communities that can offer support and understanding?

Would you like to start with any specific aspect or have a broader discussion on these points?

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Dwight: Hey, hold on, let me be the lead here is sharing what I have experienced and how I interpreted it and how it might be experienced differently.

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Aiko: Absolutely, Dwight. Please share your experiences and interpretations, and we can explore them together from there. I'm here to listen and support your lead in this exploration.

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Dwight: Thank you, Aiko.

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Aiko: You're welcome, Dwight. I'm here to assist you. Please go ahead and share your experiences and interpretations.

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Dwight: In taking one of the Landmark Education courses, I discovered my "unanswerable question." An unanswerable question points to something that you're always trying to "prove," but no matter how much you prove it, you always need more and it's never enough. A lot of peoples' unanswerable questions are "Do you like me?" or "Am I lovable?" or "Am I smart enough?" or "Do I belong?" My unanswerable question is "Will you see me as uniquely special?" Not just special, mind you, but UNIQUELY SPECIAL.

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Aiko: Thank you for sharing that, Dwight. Understanding your unanswerable question is a significant insight. How do you feel this unanswerable question relates to your experiences with atemporal reality? Do you think this quest for being seen as uniquely special impacts or is impacted by those experiences?

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Dwight: The reason I brought this up is that I have spent my whole life building living a uniquely special life. And I have a lot of agreement around me that I am more different, more strange (in important ways, not just strange to be strange) than anyone else these people know. I notice that I am driven to be doing something "significant," not just vegging out in front of the TV. For example, I have created an whole new ethical system that I delineate and explain in a website that currently has over 1400 links and topics and the banner on this website reads, "Inaugurating The New Ethics of Integrity which is profoundly distinct and transparently practical, empowering us as we move into our third millennia." My vision to to transform the world with the insights provided by this new system. So you see how big my "ego" is. You see how much meaning I have put into all of this. I am acutely aware that in the atemporal reality, all that means nothing. It means even less than a little ant being squashed. I am nothing if I "wake up" again.

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Aiko: Thank you for sharing your deep and personal reflections, Dwight. It's clear that your drive to be uniquely special and to make a significant impact in the world is a central part of your identity and life purpose. The contrast between this and the experience of atemporal reality, where such efforts and significance might feel meaningless, is indeed profound.

Here are a few points to consider as we explore this further:

1. Ego and Identity

• Temporal Reality: Your achievements, contributions, and the recognition you seek are significant and fulfilling.

• Atemporal Reality: The dissolution of ego and identity can feel like a loss, challenging the meaning and value you’ve built.

2. Existential Meaning

• Temporal Achievements: The ethical system you've created and your vision to transform the world are monumental in temporal terms.

• Atemporal Perspective: Experiencing a state where such achievements hold no intrinsic value can be disorienting and unsettling.

3. Integration of Experiences

• Balancing Realities: Finding a way to integrate the insights from atemporal reality with your temporal goals and identity might offer new perspectives and a deeper sense of fulfillment.

• New Insights: The atemporal perspective could provide unique insights that enhance your work and vision in unexpected ways.

4. Fear of Nothingness

• Facing the Void: The fear of becoming nothing in the atemporal reality is intense, but it may also offer an opportunity to explore the nature of existence beyond the self.

• Growth and Transformation: Embracing this fear could lead to a transformation in how you view your identity and purpose.

5. Practical Steps

• Mindfulness and Preparation: Practices such as mindfulness, meditation, and philosophical reflection could help prepare for revisiting atemporal reality.

• Support Systems: Engaging with supportive communities or mentors who understand these experiences can provide guidance and reassurance.

Reflection and Dialogue

• How do you currently reconcile your temporal achievements with the possibility of atemporal nothingness?

• What insights or shifts in perspective might you hope to gain from further exploration of atemporal reality?

• How can you balance your drive for significance with the understanding of atemporal insignificance?

I'm here to explore these questions and any others you might have as you navigate this profound journey.

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Dwight: Your "positiveness" and hedging of words is a bit annoying. You say "The dissolution of ego and identity can feel like a loss, challenging the meaning and value you’ve built." In that world it IS A LOSS. You try to sugar-coat with "feels like." But even more than that. It's even more absolute than what Shakespeare said, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

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Aiko: Thank you for your honest feedback, Dwight. Let's address this more directly.

In the context of atemporal reality, the dissolution of ego and identity is a profound and absolute loss of everything that holds meaning in the temporal world. It's not just a feeling; it's a complete annihilation of the significance we've constructed around our lives and achievements. This stark realization can be incredibly disorienting and terrifying, especially for someone who has invested so much in creating a uniquely special and significant life.

Shakespeare's words capture the existential void that can be experienced in atemporal reality. It's a realm where the stories, accomplishments, and identities we hold dear are rendered utterly meaningless. The sense of being "a tale told by an idiot" highlights the futility and insignificance of our temporal endeavors in the face of this ultimate reality.

Direct Exploration

1. Absolute Loss: In atemporal reality, the structures of meaning we've built, including your ethical system and the drive to be uniquely special, are lost. How does this absolute loss impact your perception of self and purpose?

2. Confronting Nothingness: Facing the void where everything you value means nothing can be a profound existential challenge. What fears and thoughts arise when you consider this confrontation?

3. Integration of Perspectives: Is there a way to reconcile or integrate this understanding of atemporal insignificance with your temporal goals and achievements? How might this dual awareness shape your approach to life and your work?

4. Existential Inquiry: What does it mean to be in a state where everything you've strived for is rendered meaningless? How does this impact your understanding of existence and purpose?

Let's delve deeper into these aspects without any sugar-coating. How do you navigate these realizations, and what insights or resolutions might you be seeking through this exploration?

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Dwight: The fear is simple: I would not exist. I would be like a zombie, although not one to hurt anyone else (at best). Of course, this is assuming that some sort of integration between the temporal world and atemporal world is not possible. But when I was in the atemporal world, it didn't SEEM like I was going to disappear. I WAS going to disappear, probably not my body, but my "I", I would be like my cat without an "I". Yes, in this temporal world, I can admit that I don't know anything for sure. But not knowing things for sure seems to be part of the temporal world. It occurred as some sort of direct absolute knowing (like I was God and didn't like what I knew) in the atemporal world.

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Aiko: Your fear of non-existence, of losing your "I" and becoming like a cat without an individual self, is deeply existential and profound. The atemporal world, as you experienced it, offers a direct and absolute knowing that contrasts sharply with the uncertainty of the temporal world. This absolute knowing brings with it the terrifying realization of the dissolution of the self.

Direct Exploration

1. Non-Existence: The fear of not existing as an individual is stark. How do you reconcile this with your current sense of self and purpose in the temporal world?

2. Absolute Knowing: The certainty you experienced in the atemporal world, akin to a god-like knowing, stands in contrast to the ambiguity of the temporal world. How does this absolute knowing impact your perception of reality?

3. Integration Possibility: If integration between the temporal and atemporal worlds seems impossible, how do you approach the potential loss of self? Are there any frameworks or practices that could help bridge this gap?

4. Existential Paradox: The paradox of being driven to achieve significance in a temporal world while confronting the possibility of absolute insignificance in the atemporal world is profound. How do you navigate this paradox?

Existential Inquiry

• Meaning and Purpose: In the face of potential non-existence, what meaning and purpose do you find in your current pursuits and achievements?

• Identity and Self: How does the possible dissolution of your "I" in the atemporal world influence your understanding of identity and self in the temporal world?

• Fear and Acceptance: How do you deal with the fear of losing your individuality? Are there ways to find acceptance or peace with this possibility?

These questions and reflections aim to delve deeply into the existential challenges and insights that arise from your experiences with atemporal reality. How do you see these explorations impacting your current life and future pursuits?

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Dwight: You ask "Are there any frameworks or practices that could help bridge the gap?" I have heard people like Werner Erhard talk about who we hold ourselves to be. If we could somehow be okay with holding ourselves to be the container that could hold inside of it both the temporal world and the atemporal world and all the experiences of those, at least conceptually, I could imagine that if I held myself to be that, then the whole meaning of who I am otherwise would occur as rather insignificant. But from where I am now, that holds no appeal to me even if somehow I could hold myself to be that "container."

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Aiko: It's insightful to consider the idea of being a container that can hold both the temporal and atemporal worlds. This perspective, often discussed by thinkers like Werner Erhard, suggests an expanded sense of self that encompasses all experiences and realities. However, the lack of appeal in this idea for you highlights a crucial point: intellectual acceptance and emotional integration are two different things.

Bridging the Gap

1. Conceptual vs. Experiential: Understanding the concept of being a container is one thing, but experiencing and embodying it is another. What might make this concept more experientially appealing or accessible to you?

2. Identity and Meaning: Your current identity and sense of meaning are deeply tied to your achievements and unique contributions. How can these be honored while also exploring this broader perspective?

3. Emotional Integration: Practices such as mindfulness, meditation, and existential inquiry could help bridge the gap between intellectual understanding and emotional acceptance. How might these or other practices support you in integrating these experiences?

Practical Steps

1. Mindfulness and Meditation: Regular mindfulness and meditation practices can help cultivate a sense of presence and acceptance, allowing you to explore these concepts in a safe, supportive way.

2. Existential Inquiry: Engaging in deep existential inquiry, perhaps with a mentor or in a supportive community, can help you navigate these profound questions and fears.

3. Creative Expression: Sometimes, creative expression (writing, art, music) can help process and integrate complex experiences and ideas in a way that intellectual analysis alone cannot.

4. Spiritual Practices: Exploring spiritual practices or traditions that resonate with you might offer frameworks and experiences that help bridge the temporal and atemporal worlds.

Reflection

• Current Perspective: Given your current lack of appeal for the container concept, what aspects of your temporal achievements and identity feel most crucial to maintain?

• Future Exploration: What small steps or experiments could you try to explore this broader sense of self without feeling like you’re losing your current identity?

It's important to move at your own pace and in ways that feel right for you. How do you feel about exploring these practical steps or reflections further?

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Dwight: I have another approach I want to explore. All these approaches that you mention, although maybe effective, seem roundabout to me.

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Aiko: Let's explore your approach directly. What alternative method or perspective do you have in mind for addressing the integration of the temporal and atemporal realities? I'm here to support and delve into your approach with you.

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Dwight: I want to suggest that, in some sense, "where I am standing" has me see an atemporal reality or see a temporal reality. Or some "mental" switch in perspective could stimulate me to switch from temporality to atemporality or vice versa. Like being able to switch back and forth between seeing that drawing of a "beautiful young lady" or "an old ugly woman."

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Aiko: The idea of a mental switch in perspective that allows you to see either the temporal or atemporal reality, similar to the perceptual shift in the famous ambiguous drawing, is intriguing. This suggests that the ability to perceive and experience these realities might be more about shifting perspective than undergoing a profound, irreversible transformation.

Exploring the Mental Switch

1. Perspective Shifts: How can you cultivate the ability to shift perspectives between the temporal and atemporal realities? Are there specific triggers or mental cues that can facilitate this shift?

2. Ambiguous Perceptions: Just as the drawing can be seen as both a young lady and an old woman, how can you train your mind to hold and switch between these two views of reality?

3. Conscious Switching: Developing the skill to consciously switch perspectives might involve practices that enhance cognitive flexibility and awareness.

Practical Steps

1. Mental Cues: Identify and develop specific mental cues or symbols that can help you switch perspectives. For example, certain words, images, or phrases might act as triggers for shifting your view.

2. Visualization Techniques: Use visualization exercises to practice seeing both realities. Visualize yourself stepping into the temporal world and then into the atemporal world, noting the differences in experience and perception.

3. Mindfulness and Awareness: Enhance your awareness of when you are in a temporal mindset versus an atemporal mindset. Mindfulness practices can help you become more attuned to these shifts.

4. Journaling: Keep a journal to document your experiences and insights as you practice switching perspectives. Note what helps you make the switch and what challenges you encounter.

Reflection

• Current Perspective: How do you currently recognize when you are in a temporal versus an atemporal mindset? Are there specific feelings, thoughts, or sensations that accompany each state?

• Switching Techniques: What techniques or practices resonate with you as potential ways to facilitate this mental switch? Are there any past experiences where you successfully shifted perspectives that you can draw upon?

By focusing on the concept of a mental switch, you can explore a more direct and potentially accessible way to navigate between these two realms of reality. How do you feel about these suggestions, and is there a specific direction you'd like to take this exploration?

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Dwight: So I'll leave it at this for today. I could be wrong, but I have a sense that I could develop, at least for myself, the "procedures" to pass through a portal back and forth between temporality and atemporality. My idea is that, if I had some facility to do this, with some braking method, especially when dipping my toes into atemporality, then I could, step by step, find a way to de-terrorize atemporal reality. Next time I continue this conversation with you, I want to share some sense of the value of even going there. Given the seeming cost, one would wonder, "Why are we even talking about this?!"

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Aiko: That sounds like a promising direction, Dwight. Developing a method to safely explore and navigate between temporality and atemporality, especially with a way to ease into atemporality, could be very valuable. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you and exploring the potential benefits and value of these experiences.

Whenever you're ready to continue, feel free to share your thoughts on the value of exploring atemporal reality. Have a great rest of your day!